Can p0rn0graphy be art?

Hi,

Here we are. I had a same sight of practical when I was still in high school. Many of my girl classmates have seen some films, where I live there are alot, most uncensored and easy to find. This to say there is not a chance to go progressively in the exploration. It is solid at the first time. We have seen some films, gathered as girl\'s squad after school time. It is fun and educational. Most things are not instinctive, like some caresses are, the all oral and other reversal positions. More talking about are boys, not girls.

Hello Sakura,

your story looks so close to numerous other girl's stories, at least from countries I know (and from this board too). of course, girls are not out of the market, loads of articles online are telling about female percentage in spicy videos business.

we've talk about earlier in another topic, there is sharp edge between watching adult context videos for the sake of art, in which we think it is art, and the general use of these videos. learning more in short time is fine for mature (over 18 ) fresh lovers, I won't argue against. only small hiatus should be when teens are watching them. maybe teens have not real needing to learn about all what you are talking about, oral, reversal and whatever other stuff. the balance from "needing" and "willing".

anyway, I'll go a little bit more in Prisoner's view about his Sakura (Sakurada), my point is that I have only one short movie of her. there is little text, little ordinary situations to appreciate her acting skill who seems quite encouraging. she's a fine girl in fact, and also quite convincing in this movie. let's say this movie should be one of the rarest lez-love videos we got in collection, in which actresses are not "playing" a lesbian role. find it funny, but we have a sharp sight for this.

Hi Best chemist,

Could we have more precision about this flick ?
Just curious.

Maybe japanese can be art. I must see and learn if.
But western and american is not. I\'m sure of that.

Apologies for the longwinded English reply here...but I thought it neccessay to get this important question out of the way...Is acting an art form? Suspect

Sounds like a pretty easy question, with an easy answer right? If the answer is yes, then I think we are on our way to believing that pornography is art...

The word acting is derived from the Latin word agĕre meaning "to do". An actor either suppresses or augments aspects of themself to reveal the role of their character for particular moments in time...and they do this for the benefit of others, not for themselves. Basically, an actor assumes a role for the benefit of an audience. clown

Where does pornography fit in? ...Well, short of home made videos where a couple may adventurously decide to film themselves making love by placing a video camera on a dresser…where no acting or directing is taking place, I would argue that pornography is an art form simply due to the fact that it involves actors acting out roles. Whether it is the love of the sexual act that is being portrayed or, the reluctance of a unwilling person being forced into a sexual act…the fact that it is played out in front of a camera with numerous people in the room to capture the scene…well that makes it a film…a form of art. It is difficult to imagine a couple embraced in a sexual act, with lights being shoved in private areas, with numerous cameras placed to capture all angles of motion…with directors adding input...and think they are doing this for their own sexual gratification. Pornography is not a personal endevour…it is an act with a deliberate intent...to act out something for an audience.

I discovered a quote from an actress named Caryn Shalita. She is a mainstream actress with a few films behind her. This is what she says:

Maybe it's the natural human impulse to want to be a voyeur...to look into places where we're not supposed to.... but my favorite kinds of films are the kind that make you feel as if you have a special vantage point, looking through a peek hole of someone else's life and living and breathing every moment with them. As an actor, I have the ability to let people experience that kind of suspended reality...the joy...the rush...that sense of intense being. That is the gift I am lucky enough to have to give the world. The Art of Acting is the Art of Life...

For me this speaks perfectly to the question of whether or not pornography is art. I love her statement "the art of acting is the art of life".

Now a further question may be, are there levels or acting? Are there higher forms of acting? Can an actor be graded on how many lines they can recite from memory…or how strong and effective their delivery…or how much they can move outside of their normal person? These are all important questions to consider…but I am again drawn back to the simple point of pornography…how easy is it to make an audience think you are in a state of rapture when you have cameras and lights pointed at your privates…and bodily fluids shooting at you from sometimes numerous positions…how erotic do you really think the pornographic actress is really feeling? Suspect

It’s got to be acting. How can we think otherwise. silent

The interesting thing about Japanese cinema is that they are (as far as I know) the only country that actually chooses adult video stars or nude photobook models to cross over to mainstream film. While the list of names isn’t huge…Sola Aoi, Mai Goto, Tomomi Kurybayashi, Shu Qi, Kei Mizutani, Aya Sugimoto, Mihiro and Kaori Shimamura have all shown acting prowess in mainstream cinema. Directors Atsushi Muroga, Takashi Miike, Takashi Ishii & Ryuichi Hiroki to name a few have worked with JAV actresses, allowing these women to further expand their acting abilities. That is cool. That is art…

Is pornography art? Yes.
Is is a high form of art...consider yourself. How easy do you think it would be to perform sexual acts in a room full of people capturing your every sigh and grimace, every crevice and blemish...all the while trying to make it look like you were having the time of you life. Pretty damned difficult if you ask me...but then again I've never tried affraid

Hi, prisoner! This is very interesting posting, I appreciate. Many times I wrote in other forums to describe difference between American attitude and Japanese attitude to adult video actors and actresses. You describe same, but I do not understand western idea about art and I think Japanese idea is different.

If I think about adult video acting, it is job like other jobs, okay? like plumber and stockbroker and engineer and store clerk, although this job requires different talent and skill training, different supervision and coordination, yes? I think I do not have talent or skill competency for such job but also even famous adult actress like Yua Aida does not have physics talent and M.S. Aerospace Engineering for my job, or negotiation skill and M.B.A. Finance for my friend Jessica's job.

I don't know if adult actress job or even adult video producer job is artist because I think adult video is not art, yes? Art is some item for beautiful decoration of human life like painting or special part of building or embroider on kimono? but this adult video is entertainment, like music CD or TV show or movie, so I think not same as art.

I think strange to have such discussions, but western people attach much meaning and philosophy to making sex and I think Japanese people do not consider so much philosophy about this activity.
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Fumiko

hi,

I think I will debate later but I think this cinema si art and entertainment. Skill's needed for doing that are far different from mainstream acting.

As fumi said, not everybody can do that, but everybody can become entertainer one day.

Hello fumi, thanks for the reply. You made two main points, one that I question and one that I am drawn to ask for more elaboration on.

Hi, prisoner! I think I can see some difference between western idea about what is art and Japanese idea, but anyway I can understand example you write. We sometimes make art that shows something ugly or scary too, but this is similar form to art that shows something beautiful, yes? Look:

Here is some historical art examples: picture of demon, also picture of fox which is like demon, and then picture of beautiful woman who is actually disguised fox!

These things are kind of ugly and scary but still art, as you say, because intention is they will decorate house or perhaps owner will keep them in drawer and put them out for viewing sometimes.

Here is same kind of format, yes? but beautiful pictures of woman applying makeup, and tsuru, this is birds, and goddess Kannon.

These are very nice and bring happy thoughts, still owner will also decorate house or keep them in some place safely and show sometimes to visitors.

Even historical Japanese art is sometimes picture of making sex! Yes! for example famous series of shunga style (erotic!) wood block paintings made by Utamaro Kitagawa, my parents had one book with reproductions of many paintings like this, they did not know I saw this book and all pictures! with my friend Hisaye.

Even this type, there is sometimes ugly stuff, or strange anyway, like picture showing fisherman's wife making sex with large squid in her dream, kind of strange, yes? I wish I will not dream of such! but we cannot plan dreams.

These are all pictures, yes? not stories or movies or other entertainment, although you can say some are entertaining! especially if boy and girl look at them together! they might encourage boy to become interested in making sex, although usually girl is not encouraged by visual, only by touch. Anyway, these are not moving either, maybe that is some difference? I don't know.

Okay second thing you are writing about is attitude about making sex which I think is different in Japan than in America or Europe, of course this will affect attitude about adult actresses too because they are making sex for their jobs, yes?

I think people in America and Europe have very large attitude about making sex, doing this activity is similar to terrorist destruction or discovery of new planet! but I think this is kind of strange, because everyone wants to do! everyone likes to do sex very much! or we will not have next generation of human life. This is conflict of attitudes, I think this makes western people upset and confused about making sex and about such girls who do this for job for adult videos.

If I am married together with some man, and I will make sex with some other men, this will make my husband upset, yes? because marriage is for making children and if I make sex with other men my husband cannot know his children for certain. Also my husband will not know if I love some other man more than I love husband, he will feel very sad for this, I know this is typical thinking of males.

But this situation is not similar to making sex for my job, especially before we become married anyway! Job does not have connection to love some man, job of adult video actress is acting, yes? pretend situation and emotion so that audience will have entertainment. Also very good adult actress can do many things related to making sex easily! and make this look very interesting and encouraging! because her interest and practice. This is similar to my ability to compile and calculate statistical data for engineering application, which I practice too.

Also please don't forget men who are adult video actors too! and these have strong talent, yes? making sex deliberately with production crew and electronic devices and lights, this is much more difficult for man! my opinion. And if man is not encouraged to do sex, we can see immediately! but if woman is not encouraged, we shall never know! So is there similar western negative attitude about men who have such job?

I think there is not reason to think adult video actress is strange, more than other actress is strange, or more than other job is strange, like host of TV show about wild animals who always touches them and challenges them in every show! this is very strange to me, dangerous!
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Fumiko

My word but Christmas has been crazy at our house...so many relatives and kids and weird family dynamics...it's been busy!!! karate

Hello Fumi, thanks for your reply...again there was much to think about...

I think difference in languages = difference in understanding of this. In Japanese, there are many words that can mean something like art in English:

jutsu, this is like a way of doing something, a method or technique or special skill

waza, this is also meaning like a technique

jin'i, this is like something made by people, artifice? rather than natural object

bijutsu, this is collection of certain skills we call "fine arts" in English, like painting and architecture

So: is your opinion = adult video is bijutsu? or jutsu? or something different. I think it is not bijutsu like famous Matisse painting! I think it is engei, this is entertainment performance as you would see in theater, but also it is require jutsu, special skill like technique of composition and color application of famous Matisse himself.

But -- people in Japan usually do not think story is bijustsu like painting or architecture of temple! but in America you think story or song is same as painting!
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Fumiko

This article is worth reading. I learn much more here and I say you both are good contributors. Not easy to read good articles elsewhere.

Wow, thanks, eve! I appreciate! prisoner too!
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Fumiko

Hello eve and Fumi,

Thanks for your nice words eve. For me that is what a forum is all about. Posting topics and having others propel it with replies and further feedback from the original poster(s), and then more additions from other viewer. Ideally, a whole lot of ideas and tangents can sprout from a single post...sadly that often does not happen:no: .

Fumi, you have given me alot to think about with you ideas regarding the concept of art. When I was studying philosphy I was captivated by the idea that we struggle to find words to express concepts. More often than not, faults in understanding lie not so much in the way we try and express ourselves but more in the limitations of language. Art is a concept we all think we understand...but it is too broad a term, has far too many sub-definitions, permutations and leaves us scratching our heads wondering why we are confused when someone shows us art that looks like a plate of spaghetti Suspect

. Thank you for the breakdown of Japanese terms...if this is the way Japan views creative works, then no wonder you find the Western problem of not truly understanding Art confusing...we have failed to define it correctly. Art is not art, art as a concept requires futher breaking down into recognized and applied sub-concepts, and it is these sub-concepts that we need to give words too. English does have words for most of these sub-categories of art, but we often fail to use them...instead, in conversations we rely on the all too confusing word ART.